Thursday, 23 June 2011

On John Ostrander's "Suicide Squad: Trial By Fire"

In which the blogger comes to praise the achievements of John Ostrander as evidenced in the new "Suicide Squad: Trial By Fire" TPB. Discussion of the undeniable virtues of Luke McDonnell's art in the same collection will, the blogger assures you, be attended to in a future piece here on TooBusyThinking;

            
1.

One day, when my excesses of enthusiasm and arrogance combine to overwhelm my better judgement, I will set up a private university of The Comic Book Arts Of Storytelling.

I’m still working on the details of the curriculum, but I’ve already got some of the broad outlines of the course up and ready for further development. For example, students will spend their first year slaving to master as many of the fundamentals of the craft as they can without resorting to either amphetamines or smart drugs. (They’re not to filch from my sugar or caffeine stashes either. After all, we’re teaching them to be laudable citizens, not citizen snack thieves.)

At the end of their first three terms, all students are going to be required to read the first volume of John Ostrander’s “Suicide Squad” stories, and overnight too. And if each and every single one of them doesn’t turn up on the morrow with their mouths locked wide open with a respect tumbling into stupefaction, then they’ve effectively volunteered themselves to repeat the first year of the course again.

This is, I really do believe, the fairest and most objective of all exam regimes.

                   
2.

It’s hard to believe that the stories in the “Trial By Fire” collection were part of the mainstream of superhero comics almost a quarter of a century ago. How is that possible? If stories this clever and involving, smart and moving, ambitious and well-crafted, were somehow being published by DC in the May of 1987, then surely there’d be more of a trace of such a golden age in our here and now? For although it's not that Mr Ostrander stands without professional admirers, or that his work failed to inspire modern-era successors, it is that there surely should be a greater mark of his influence evident today. Gail Simone, for example, has written that Mr Ostrander’s work on the Suicide Squad “influences everything I do”, and refers to the respect he’s held in the industry in general in the article you'll find here. In particular, she identifies how an “entire wave of writers, including myself, Greg Rucka, Christos Gage, and Geoff Johns, learned how to write morally twisty characters at least partially from John long before any of us had ever met him.”

But that's still not Mr Ostrander's due, and of course, Ms Simone was never suggesting for a second that it ever could be. For even the single example of "Suicide Squad" among all of his work can serve to illustrate what an important writer he is. In its own fiercely-engaged fashion, it was a epochal comic book, a mark of ambition and competence in those post-Watchmen months when the business suddenly and temporarily forgot to repress its potential. Nobody in comics had ever before approached the matter of a team book by paying so much attention to the psychological flaws of each of the individual personalities on the page. The many and various characters in the “Suicide Squad” are nearly all so fundamentally damaged as people that any two of them could maim each other over the feather’s extra weight of stress caused by a slow-delivering chocolate dispenser. Indeed, so horrendous and irreconcilable are the barely hidden flaws in Mr Ostrander’s cast that the reader almost feels shamefully voyeuristic in watching one terrible conflict play out after another.


There’s Rick Flagg, who believes he was tasked by his dying father to carry on the ugliest of battles while knowing that he was responsible for his own mother’s death. He sits exactly where a hero would in the narrative, but he’s so busted-up and haunted that he’s often on the edge of exhaustion even before the punch-ups can begin. There’s Amanda Waller, with a murdered daughter and a murdered husband and perhaps one of the most thoroughly unpleasant personalities ever created in comics, and that includes a fair number of line-leading criminal masterminds and tyrants. The sociopathic Captain Boomerang, the schizophrenic Enchantress, the morally catatonic Deadshot, the emotionally-compromised Marnie Herrs, the amnesiac Bronze Tiger, the professional revolutionary Plastique; if any single one of these characters reached out and slashed another with a switchblade, no-one could be entirely surprised and no-one could be short of a host of hypotheses concerning why.

The holy grail of team books is one composed of characters who never need to be made to behave in an inconsistent and unconvincing fashion, no matter how extreme a plot-twist it is that's being executed. With such an armory of a cast, conflict never has to be imposed, because the very nature of the folks on-panel screams out that conflict is what’s inevitably going to occur.

      
3

There's an audacious two dozen speaking roles in the script for the first issue - "Trial Of Blood" - alone, as well as an unsettling half-page involving a silent and rat-soul-sucking Parasite and a debate about his civil rights. That number includes twelve or so members of Task Force X, including the Suicide Squad, and six of their opponents in the super-terrorist cell known as Jihad. Yet, though the story feels packed with character and incident, it never comes across as stodgy, slow-moving or uninvolving. Everyone we meet is introduced, everyone is made distinct, everyone has a role to play, everyone does something telling.

And to carry such a mass of character-work, Mr Ostrander's story is woven from some very different cloth than is typical in most of the books of 2011. There are what would now be heretical panel configurations containing ten and even twelve information-rich frames. (How would that appear according to what's supposed to be the new-DC "no-talking-heads" orthodoxy?) And yet there's also a five page sequence showing a murderous terrorist assault on a movie-set of an airport, full of blood and spectacularism and the destruction of a faux-Airforce One, and a two-third-of-a-page moody establishing shot of the Belle Reve Federal Prison too adding a touch of the monumental to events.

More than a decade before the likes of Warren Ellis and Brian Michael Bendis began in their individual ways to experiment with mixing the grandest of set-pieces with the most everyday of still close-ups, John Ostrander was after his own fashion pioneering techniques to try to achieve the same. His work was often far more literary in its inspiration, far closer to the melodrama of the post-Stan Lee consensus, and far less determined to stand as an extravagant break with the past. But radical it was, and conspicuously successfully too.

         
4.

Continuity is of course something of a potty-mouthed word these days. It carries with it a sense of the shameful obsessions of unworldly Fanboys. Continuity, it seems, is an insult, an indulgence, a petty distraction from the business of telling stories and attracting the inexperienced reader. But that's not how continuity plays in "Suicide Squad", where the world and history of the DCU are so utterly integrated into the tales at hand that the affectations of what we commonly know as continuity appear to belong to quite another storytelling tradition altogether. There's no sense of playing with a host of ill-integrated past stories in these tales. Instead, Mr Ostrander presents us with what feels like an entirely convincing and coherent fictional world. And so, the Jihad operates in a geo-political context established in "Superman", 

     
while Madame Xanadu from 'The Spectre' is called upon to help out the Enchantress, with Jim Corrigan making a smart two-panel cameo. Even the Manhunter-trained Privateer from the JLA turns up as a prequel to the then-coming "Millennium" crossover. It's not just that the continuity is tight and wide-ranging here, but that it's joyful and imaginatively used and it's applied to create a universe rather than to revel in obscurantism. The People's Heroes in the "Firebird" two-parter are obviously and entertainingly the same characters as last shown  in "Outsiders", while they logically discuss Pozhar, another Soviet superhero last seen in Mr Ostrander's "Firestorm" tales. Darkseid's orders to rescue Glorious Godfrey from the Task X prison flow directly from the mini-series "Legends", while even the helicopter used by the Squad had previously been seen being constructed in the factories of Ferris Aerospace in "Green Lantern". (Editor Robert Greenberger, who obviously threw himself into this universe-building with a commitment above and beyond the call of comicbook duty, discusses the process in the text pages of the original "Suicide Squad" # 1.)

Here is the continuity-consistent immersive universe that's apparently now considered a chimera, that's so often thought of in 2011 as involving too great a burden of trivia and constraint to achieve anything but the alienation of readers. Yet "Suicide Squad" is an argument that continuity isn't the death of entertainment, but a vital component of it if approached appropriately. In these pages, Mr Ostrander created an extravagantly impossible and yet entirely-plausible fictional world by looking at events as seen from the margins. It's a song from under the floorboards, and I've never so been able to believe that the DCU is a universe rather than an insubstantial backdrop as here.

      
5.

A reader who knew nothing of the past of the superhero sub-genre and only a little of its present might, upon encountering "Suicide Squad: Trial By Fire", be moved to conclude that some catastrophic collapse of creative and intellectual IQ had occurred in either the industry or its audience, if not both, in the years since 1987. Some of that presumption would come from a recognition that even medium-selling titles of the past had apparently been targeted at the kind of patient, literate and curious-minded consumer that Big Two now seem often to have stopped believing in. And there might also be a sense that creators as a whole had either become a great deal less knowledgeable about the world beyond the pages of the superhero comic, or that they'd decided that their readers couldn't or wouldn't cope with any such enthusiasm for anything beyond the least taxing view of life beyond Avenger's Mansion..

Perhaps such a limited sample of the comics of 1987 as are included in "Trial By Fire" really might evoke an imagined comicbook industry of the past far more commonly marked by ambition and intelligence than that of today. But the truth is that Mr Ostrander was every bit as much an anomaly back then as the likes of Cornell and Simone and Ewing are now. Yet there's a wonderfully invigorating sense in these tales that Mr Ostrander simply couldn't help himself from mining these stories with far more than just a narrative spine, an obvious conflict, a water-cooler moment and a link-up to a crossover. His fascination for politics, for example, is woven throughout these tales. It's an exquisite, and rather repellent thing, to watch his take on President Reagan waving away criticism of the Red-Baiting of the Justice Society in the early Fifties. Out here in Earth-it-really-happened, Reagan had been, after all, an informer snitching on his Hollywood colleagues in the late Forties, so of course he'd not want to hear the period discussed or his old bosses bad-mouthed once safely on top of the greasy pole. And Mr Ostrander's take on Gorbachev is similarly convincing; he never makes the mistake of portraying the Premier as a cuddly little liberal lacking a spine and a sense of his own power. His Gorbachev is fiercely bright, but still obviously a man who's lived within and fought his way up through the Soviet hierarchy.


         
But then, this relentless and playful love of everything, this determination to retain a faith that the audience finds thinking and questioning as fascinating a business as Mr Ostrander evidently does, is evident in so many different aspects of these stories. Yes, he's engaged with both contemporary affairs and the backstory of the DCU, and with the narrative traditions of the thriller and adventure movies too. But there's other unexpected nuggets underpinning his stories, lending meaning to them without ever drawing attention to themselves. My favourite is the way that Mr Ostrander uses the details of the famous and tragic murder of Kitty Genovese in Queens in 1964. The appalling absence of altruism on the part of those who heard Damita Waller's torture by the Candyman in "Secret Origins" # 14 carries the same spirit of anomie which the Genovese killing inspired in most everyone who heard of its circumstances. That folks could listen for that long to a woman's suffering and yet not even call the police; the real horrors in "Suicide Squad" are often very much those not of the super-worlds and the super-people, but those of our time and place.

     
6.

Like all the best pop-entertainment,  the stories in "Suicide Squad" can obviously be enjoyed solely in terms of their considerable virtues as rather bleak, tense and white-knuckle-ride entertainments. In fact, I strongly suspect that Mr Ostrander would be appalled at the idea of anyone sidestepping the pleasures of the narrative in order to first play around with all the continuity and history, psychology and politics. But the more the reader cares to return to these stories and spend some time in their company, the more it becomes clear that Mr Ostrander just wasn't content to ensure that he delivered the reader their money's worth in terms of plot and spats and deaths and explosions. Instead, there's a form of writerly enthusiasm that's obvious in these pages and which is still furiously working away in both text and sub-text. It's never too obvious, it's never too indulgent, it's certainly never pretentious. But sometimes it snares the edge of the reader's concentration even at the least conspicuous of scenes and makes them think twice about what they've just read.

For example, at the end of the second chapter of "Trial By Fire", the Squad are returning home from the Jihad's mountain-side base after an only partially-successful mission. Yet they're obviously going to escape, and though one of their number has been killed, the rest of them will surely make it back across the border. And there in Mr McDonnell's art stands all the tropes of the closing sequence of a gritty action-adventure epic. The lonely helicopters flying safely across the desert, the rising sun behind them, the danger receding into the distance. But then the reader considers the very last narrative caption on the page, which argues for anything other than an optimistic reading of the success of the mission or the future of the survivors;

"The two aircraft turn west, away from the dawning day, heading back into the night."

But shouldn't they be headed into the dawn, and away from the night?

Even in something not unlike victory, there's an appalling unease ....


Tomorrow: It's Friday With The Champions here on TooBusyThinking. Oh, yes; California 1975 here we come ...

.

36 comments:

  1. It's fascinating to me how the cast of Suicide Squad can be so compelling in spite of being such damaged characters. It shouldn't work. It usually doesn't work for me; I'm one who prefers upright characters and good triumphing over the morally ambiguous. Perhaps the only undamaged characters in Suicide Squad were Vixen and Nemesis. And yet, I don't think I ever rooted for Nemesis because he went against the grain, opposing Waller's missions. I understood that Waller, for all her faults, made necessary decisions and by refusing to cooperate, Nemesis was equivalent to a moral coward. So much for liking the nice guys!

    Waller alone is such an impressive character under Ostrander's pen, the way she's able to outfox her enemies, but alienates the people who are supposed to be in her corner, to the extent that she shares the blame for the fall of Rick Flag. Flag himself went against all of my expectations for a team leader; even though he had the moral strength and physical capability to lead the team, he was so neutered by Waller and haunted by his past that I instantly realized he was headed for tragedy. The Flag moment which always stands out in my mind is from the JLI crossover, played primarily as a farce with the bwa-ha-ha League engaging in banter with the Squad and eventually calling off the fight...only to find Batman and Flag engaged in a scrap so desperate you believe they're trying to kill each other. Ostrander's Suicide Squad lives in the same world as the incompetant dolts from the Justice League International, yet it all hangs together.

    So much about the series amazes me; the way Captain Boomerang is consistently the most repellent character, and yet almost never receives his comeuppance (I believe the Mirror Master scam and mysterious pie man plots were the only occasions where Waller punished him); the way Ravan can begin the series working for Muslim terrorists in a plot to assassinate the US President, then later happily wind up working for the US government, not caring who his master is; Bronze Tiger holding it together for most of the series, only to fall apart near the end; silly ol' Slipknot testing Waller's bomb... Actually, Slipknot demonstrates that while karma may not exist in Ostrander's universe, Darwinism does.

    Considering how terrible DC crossovers often are, it's also amazing how wonderful Ostrander's tie-ins are. The Millennium & Invasion! tie-ins make effective use of the crossovers as a backdrop for the Squad, giving their missions a feeling of relevance and significance. Even a forgettable crossover like War of the Gods led to a memorable issue. Ostrander was such a skilled hand at playing within the DC Universe, in Suicide Squad, Firestorm and Manhunter. Suicide Squad may not carry the pretensions of any of Alan Moore's work, but it's still my all-time favourite DC comic book.

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  2. Hello Michael: - I wish I'd written what you did above for my piece! That's a lovely piece of work explaining why that book meant so much to you, it really is. Thank you :)

    I must admit, I haven't read the Suicide Squad books for what's getting on to two decades. And between then and now, I find that my idea of what constitutes craft and what stands as surface flash has changed dramatically. In truth, always loved that first year of the book and then my attention faded, but now I doubt that that was the fault of Suicide Squad in any way. I think that I had to learn just a shameful little more about how to enjoy a comic book. Coming from spending time working out why I so enjoyed the Secret Six, Suicide Squad suddenly fell into place. Like a body learning to love the blues through a Brit invasion band, I suddenly and immediately "got" Mr Ostrander's work in a way I'd not before.

    Re-reading the stories in the TPB was a revelation, and so I wanted to approach them in a general sense here, making sense of the broad sense of Mr O's quite genuinely radical approach for myself. I have a terrible sense that I've missed out on so much that's to enjoy because I didn't quite grasp what was going on. Oh, well. I've always owned up to sometimes needing several shots at even the low jump.

    I too recall with genuine pleasure the sight of Wayne and Flagg being unable to hold their angst and fury in place. That it's both funny and tragic, because it really does emphasise how utterly wound-up and broken-down these two real/unreal men are. And that business that you mention of managing to find a context in which to fit both the JLI and the SuiSqu without making either seem out of character or the DCU as a whole seem lacking in sense is a triumph.

    I look at these 8 collected stories and I realise again that (1) I can't wait for the next volume and (2) there's a treasure trove of skill on show in this book.

    "Actually, Slipknot demonstrates that while karma may not exist in Ostrander's universe, Darwinism does."

    And - ker-ching! - that registers on the "I like that very much" scale.

    On the tie-ins; the Millennium tie-in's even more remarkable, isn't it, because it cut across a mini-suite of titles as well as falls under the series umbrella? Despite my being a major Engelhart fan, Millennium was a terrible series, and yet the crossovers were often very enjoyable indeed/ ("Fascist England" indeed!)

    "Suicide Squad may not carry the pretensions of any of Alan Moore's work, but it's still my all-time favourite DC comic book."

    Well, I have to say that I'm starting to have, the more I blog, a great deal of my preconceptions blown away, and one of them is the SuiSqu is a book that I'm not particularly keen on. As I was reading it, I kept thinking that it actually had more to teach us that either Dark Knight Returns or Watchman in terms of the superhero as an on-going proposition. That sounds like heresy today, but of course at the time neither TDKR nor Watchmen was regarded as a big deal until AFTER they were on the stands; no-one thought they were involved with anything other than some very good comics. And even know, as the creators of both marquee limited-series have said, they were intended as road-maps for the future of the sub-genre. Nor do I think it can be said that ever were, as splendid as each was in many ways.

    cont

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  3. cont;

    But SuiSqu is an organic, breathing book, a book that's about exploring a universe rather than trying to reduce it to its simple and least useful dimensions - if I can struggle to find my sense of it in that way in response to your words. It's a comic that's a great deal to say about how to create worlds that enable rather than destroy the capacity to tell stories in a shared universe. No, I don't think there's anything to challenge about your high opinion of SuiSqu. I'm only ashamed that it took me so long for the penny drop, and for me to realise that what I thought I respected I barely understood.

    But then, I was but a lad when the book came out. If I'd've have grasped how little I knew, I'd not have stayed away. I'd've been sitting up and paying attention.

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  4. Another excellent post. For my part, I always figured that the Squad couldn't be allowed a proper triumphal exit for the simple reason that Ostrander always seemed well aware that for all their heroics, the Squad weren't heroes. Sort of an 'if it's not a comedy, it's a tragedy' sort of thing. The downer endings just hammered home the point that these guys weren't getting out of things alive/healthy/whole.

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  5. Really good article man. It does make you think, and it is what's missing from modern comics nowadays. I think alot of that has to do with the the way our culture's been conditioned to have it now, instant gratification rather than to slowly enjoy what's being presented our way. I admit I too sometimes fall into that line of thinking.

    I just wrote a blog about how there's too many haters and trolls on the internet; people who are too quick to provide harsh criticism and not enough constructive criticism. Sure some writers/artists are guilty of having off-days, or not being deep enough, but at least they're putting themselves out there instead of those that openly criticize.

    Also I do agree about DC's(and even Marvel sometimes) issue with continuity. I don't why they feel it's so bad a thing to have. No, you shouldn't be hampered by it, but you can still use it as a tool to help your stories not just hurt them. That's why I don't care for the recent rebooting. I understand to a point why they did this, but not at the cost of undoing all that hard work from past and present creators. The only real positives I see coming from this is the new digital medium to attract new readers, and the new amount of choices title-wise for new/current readers.

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  6. Hello Josh:- a generous word for the master of the super-villain post is always a fine thing. Thank you :)

    It must be a terribly difficult thing to do, to avoiding creating either heroes or celebrations of an anti-social sensibility out of monsters like Boomerang or Punch and Jewel. I think you're quite right to point out that one way not to turn monsters into protagonists is to avoid letting them win any conflict on a high note.

    I'm becomming fascinated by how some writers manage to keep their worst characters reading as such, while others seem to find it impossible to keep a Sabretooth or a Dakken from becoming a celebration of their own worst qualities.

    In Suicide Squad, for example, I love how Captain Boomerang had his flat in New Orleans and the high life of sorts and yet always seemed like a wretch, no matter how well he lived. A good job well done, I say.

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  7. >And - ker-ching! - that registers on the "I like that very much" scale.

    Thank you! Are you also in favour of bootblacking?

    >On the tie-ins; the Millennium tie-in's even more remarkable, isn't it, because it cut across a mini-suite of titles as well as falls under the series umbrella? Despite my being a major Engelhart fan, Millennium was a terrible series, and yet the crossovers were often very enjoyable indeed/ ("Fascist England" indeed!)

    The Squad issue has some difficulties tying into the main story - like when Captain Atom enters and exits the story in about 2 pages - but the main thrust of the story, centered around the Squad's ineffectiveness at fighting the Manhunters (one of the few books to make the Manhunters truly formidable, I believe) and the tension surrounding which member is the traitor (Privateer being the red herring), all building up to Karin's redemptive sacrifice results in a winning story. Also, Slipknot.

    I'm in full agreement with your thoughts on Watchmen & DKR. Those two books stand on their own, narratives informed by all the comics which came before them and informing many of those since, but their stories are told by singular creative teams confined to singular titles. Suicide Squad was a book which had to think on its feet, reacting to changes in the DCU which Ostrander had no control over. It's very enjoyable to see him bring Nightshade & Shade the Changing Man into the DCU, drag Barbara Gordon out of limbo and into her greatest role yet and even pick up abandoned plots from the Atom. The connectivity between his own books is also a lot of fun, such as the Parasite appearance in Squad#1 setting up Parasite joining the Squad for a disastrous mission in Firestorm, the pages of Firestorm spawning a new Thinker for the Squad, or a sequence in Manhunter where all the super criminals on the police circulars are destined to appear in upcoming issues of either Squad or Manhunter.

    Also, let it never be forgotten that at the height of Deadshot's popularity - immediately after his mini-series concluded - Ostrander wrote him out of the Squad for more than a year; that's chutzpah.

    (and I'll see your Fascist England and raise you a Fascist Canada, per Alpha Flight)

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  8. Hello Dale; thanks for the generous words.

    I think there’s no doubt that we do live in a want-it-now-and-I-don’t-want-to-chew-culture, and for all that comics learn from such a competitive and demanding/undemanding market, I regret that consumers can’t be encouraged to be a touch more patient. Yet a great many comic book readers are, I’ve always found, voracious readers. I wonder if folks, or at least some of them, might put up with comics which are less fast-food if they were given a broader choice. After all, producers in other industries set out to encourage and educate their consumers into broader tastes. Why shouldn’t the comic book companies do more over the long term to broaden tastes in the marketplace? It doesn’t have to a process which expects miracles overnight, or demands them.

    “I just wrote a blog about how there's too many haters and trolls on the internet; people who are too quick to provide harsh criticism and not enough constructive criticism. Sure some writers/artists are guilty of having off-days, or not being deep enough, but at least they're putting themselves out there instead of those that openly criticize.”

    I worry a great deal about the criticism I put up at times on this blog. I’m really not comfortable having a go in public, if you will. But if I do find myself believing that a hard time is due for the handing out, then I do try to do it carefully, taking the time to explain points and letting them lie for a few days while I work out of the opinion is fair. The quick criticism, as you imply, is nearly always the worst kind of criticism.

    ”Also I do agree about DC's(and even Marvel sometimes) issue with continuity. I don't why they feel it's so bad a thing to have. No, you shouldn't be hampered by it, but you can still use it as a tool to help your stories not just hurt them. That's why I don't care for the recent rebooting. I understand to a point why they did this, but not at the cost of undoing all that hard work from past and present creators.”

    I am torn on this. My head knows that creators have a case for feeling constrained by continuity. And yet Suicide Squad is yet another example of the fact that continuity can be an absolute boon to storytelling. Nothing kills love for a character, I tend to think, that constantly cutting them off from their own past. Yet what if the wrong people are put in charge of a character and they make the wrong decisions? Must a character be weighed down forever with terrible choices?

    I await the DC new broom to see how these matters play out there. Fingers crossed :)

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  9. It occurred me to just after posting my last comment that the Judas Contract crossover, in a sense, puts to lie some of Mark Millar's assertions circa Civil War about how the US government should be placed in charge of superhumans. In Judas Contract, all the superhumans working for the government wind up at each other's throats because of inter-agency rivalries, paranoia and the exploitations of Kobra. It's not enough to say super-heroes should be working for the government, not if the men who give them their marching orders aren't up to snuff (Waller is the only leader who has her head on straight in that story, but she escalates the problem by refusing to share information, per her usual m.o.). It takes outsiders like Manhunter to help sort out the problem and expose the real villain. Although Ostrander was just one contributor to the crossover, I feel it's another great sampling of his political savvy.

    (the New Universe's Draft had similar ideas at that time, wherein the Army drafting paranormals causes the CIA to do likewise; then Iran decides to build a paranormal army and hello World War III...)

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  10. Hello Michael:- “Are you also in favour of bootblacking?”

    You know, I’m so out-of-the-loop that I had to look the very thing up on google a moment ago. After a certain age, even knowing enough to banter begins to disappear from the option list. Still, I’m now aware of another interesting phenomena :)

    ”The Squad issue has some difficulties tying into the main story ....”

    You’re amazing, Michael! I haven’t re-read these stories since around 1992, I think, but you’ve got those details down pat. I did buy the main Millennium issues in a TPB a few years ago. I wasn’t as bad as I thought, but as the music hall gag says, worse. (Mind you, I’ve been reading the Alpha Flight issues and that’s no better on the don’t-be-daft-read-a-textbook scale. I’m not claiming that as a reflection of your opinion at all. My major at uni was Fascism; it’s something that I can’t help but get all-sand-in-the-wound about. But I don't mean to be grumpy about it.)

    Practically only fond memories of my teacher training was picking up whatever Millennium books had arrived in Leicester’s one comic shop that week. There were a few good chaps working there and walking in and back from my digs was a highlight of the week. For that reason I’ve always been very forgiving of those books. I have no defence.

    ”I'm in full agreement with your thoughts on Watchmen & DKR. Those two books stand on their own, narratives informed by all the comics which came before them and informing many of those since, but their stories are told by singular creative teams confined to singular titles.

    The false status of those books has done the sub-genre no favours at all, has it? To say that isn’t to decry their value, though they’re badly flawed in places. I’ve never quite believed that Watchman’s ending gets forgiven; my definition of a masterpiece doesn’t include ‘great nicked and unsatisfying sinkhole of an ending’. Wasn’t it Len Wein that asked Moore NOT to have that as the big moment of the book? And TDKR is in many places all over the place. Great moments, no masterpiece. So, yes, if we want to look for books which can help us with the art of the ongoing, then Miller’s DD is a better bet, as is Moore’s Swamp Thing. And Suicide Squad sits nicely then in that company. Perhaps there’s a book for someone in writing an alternative history of the sub-genre, dealing with the comics which are or should be the real spine of the tradition of the superhero book

    “Suicide Squad was a book which had to think on its feet, reacting to changes in the DCU which Ostrander had no control over. It's very enjoyable to see him bring Nightshade & Shade the Changing Man into the DCU, drag Barbara Gordon out of limbo and into her greatest role yet and even pick up abandoned plots from the Atom. The connectivity between his own books is also a lot of fun, such as the Parasite appearance in Squad#1 setting up Parasite joining the Squad for a disastrous mission in Firestorm, the pages of Firestorm spawning a new Thinker for the Squad, or a sequence in Manhunter where all the super criminals on the police circulars are destined to appear in upcoming issues of either Squad or Manhunter.”

    Can I get back to you when this stuff is released again? I’ve never wished that I'd kept ALL my old issues as I do reading your ideas here. I keep thinking I know that, but I don’t really KNOW that.

    ”Also, let it never be forgotten that at the height of Deadshot's popularity - immediately after his mini-series concluded - Ostrander wrote him out of the Squad for more than a year; that's chutzpah.”

    OK. I’d forgotten that entirely. I recall the mini with some fondness and of course horror. But the year afterwards .. I think everything but learning how to survive in some challenging classrooms took over for a period of years. The irony is that I’m now sitting here enjoying learning from you about comics and I’ve no need for those teaching skills anymore.

    Thankfully ! :)

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  11. Michael, I feel as if you’re unlocking truly happy memories which I’ve long forgotten. I really DID enjoy the Judas Directive – can I just claim 1 point for my shamed memory by offering you one friendly ‘directive’ for a Teen Titan-appropriate ‘contract’? – and I’ve forgotten how that minor crossover was actually one of the most enjoyable events of … was it 90? 89? Again, I’ve not read it in decades, but I’ve fond memories of it.

    I’m very interested to read it again because of your comments. On the whole, and for all problems which have continually arisen from them having a near-monopoly of power – I prefer democratic states to have control over the big weapons. I’m uncomfortable with the idea of any crossover which seems to be arguing that governments can’t be trusted to do that; after all, I’d rather Washington had the bomb and the smallpox virus too rather than any corporation or private industry. And yet I can’t remember that being the meaning of JD, and let’s be honest, just about every superhero who works for private industry or business ends up being treated equally brutally in the superhero book, as do their bosses. I simply MUST track down the JD now you’ve got my mind turning over. Plus of course I just COULDN’T imagine Mr Ostrander contributing to any so dodgy a text.

    I’ve always felt that the superhero works as a debate concerned with how much or how little the state is doing. In that sense, it makes the superhero distrusts everyone, including itself, because power is just about always abused by everyone at the table.

    “the New Universe's Draft had similar ideas at that time, wherein the Army drafting paranormals causes the CIA to do likewise; then Iran decides to build a paranormal army and hello World War III...”

    So you’re going to make me want to read every late 80s/early 90s event? It’s a real weakness in this blog, actually, in that I haven’t written nearly enough about the period. I don’t know if I’ve managed to express it, but you’ve really inspired me about the books you’ve mentioned. Thank you :)

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  12. Sadly, I think a large part of why Ostrander's SS run isn't more on the mind's of today's comic book fans is the art by Luke McDonnell. His art was never sleek and sexy, and a lot of fans at the time just never gave the book a chance. As a result, that cultural omission has trickled down to today, where the original series is something that fans may know of, but they've never actually experienced it for themselves.

    On the subject of continuity, the issue of Secret Origins that gives the backstory of the Squad (is that included in the collection you read?) is a marvel to read. In my head, I know that all these disparate elements that Ostrander tied together were from different series that originally had no connection to each other (and in some case were originally published by different companies, I believe), but in my heart, I can't help but think, "But of course all this ties together! It was always meant to!"

    Finally, in regards to the broken personalities and psychological study of the different characters, if you've never read the original Deadshot mini-series that Ostrander wrote (about the same time as he was finishing up the first year or so of SS, I think), please do yourself a favor and hunt down those issue ASAP. It really is one of the finest psychological stories in comic book form that either of the Big Two have ever published.

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  13. Hello Knightsky:- I think you make a good point about Mr McDonnell's art. And yet, it was his very lack of ego and his determination to work extra time without ever showing off which allowed Mr Ostrander's stories to work. Anything more flashy and any story that complex starts to get buried in an artist's style and choices. It's not that I'm disagreeing in any way, Mr K. It's just that more modest styles can actually pay dividends with dense scripts.

    But then I was one of those who were lukewarm about LD's style back then too! Indeed, it was only writing the above that the penny dropped and started to really warm to his work. So please don't think I'm in any way claiming to have thought any differently; I really wasn't.

    The Secret Origins story is indeed in the collection, placed right at the front of the book, setting off the whole procedure. And you've expressed so well how brilliantly Mr O wove together all the many, discrete and disparate sources for this series. Its remarkable work :)

    Your recommendation for the Deadshot is well taken. I read it at the time, but I must admit that the far younger me recoiled from the bleakness of it all. It was a rather bleak - though not Deadshot bleak! - time for me and I tended not to value any work that looked that closely and intensely into the darkness. Yet you're right, it's great work, and my tastes are ENTIRELY different now. I must chase down the issues. Perhaps they'll be collected in a Suicide Squad series of TPBs.

    It'd be good to think so :)

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  14. Don't get me wrong, my comment wasn't meant to disparage Mr. McDonnell's work, merely to indicate that his style is, unfortunately, simply not going to be appreciated by the 'average' comic book reader.

    As an older teenager at the time those issues were released, I was also not that keen on his art, but fortunately it grew on me over time. These days I can truly appreciate just how much he added to the series as a whole. Not only the lack of unnecessary flash, as you indicated, but in some ways the 'roughness' of the art adds to the tone of the book, never letting you get too comfortable with any of these characters.

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  15. Hello Knightsky:- you know, given how unpleasant so much of the comics blogosphere can be, I find it heartening that we're both trying to describe possible problems with the general appeal of Mr McDonnell's work without ever wanting to be seen to disparage him. I think that's a splendid thing. Thank you.

    That 'roughness' you mention never came across to me before, but it certainly does now. His Task Force X hq for example is a building that you just wouldn't want to enter; there's nothing there that should make it more than typically unwelcoming for a superhero locale, but it feels far worse than the surface aspect of the art should carry. Yes, you're right, for characters to locations, his work was one step away from the even-then more comfortable styles common to the DCU.

    Mind you, I grew up as a kid of a man who worked his life on aeroplanes. That means I tend to notice that 'Airforce One' in the first panel of SuSq # 1 is actually a DC-9, a far smaller and never-to-be-big-deal Presidential jet. Stranger yet, it does transform into an unconvincing could-be-a-747 a few pages later. Yes, that's the limits of my beef with LM's art. He didn't get his commercial airliners straight :)

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  16. I'm happy to hear this is a good as it is on by to-buy list (before the second volume drops later in the year), it is a pity the Showcase Presents; suicide Squad seems never to have materialised either. Have you read the more recent SS limited series, From the Ashes? I was holding off from buying that until I read these and now it is out-of-print (ah the bane of being a tradewaiter-waiter, especially when it comes to DC).

    Anyway Colin you said:

    "As I was reading it, I kept thinking that it actually had more to teach us that either Dark Knight Returns or Watchman in terms of the superhero as an on-going proposition.

    ...

    It's a comic that's a great deal to say about how to create worlds that enable rather than destroy the capacity to tell stories in a shared universe."

    Which is a very interesting point. As DKR and Watchmen were outside continuity they could, in some ways, craft the fictional universe for their own ends and not give a fig if they've broken all the toys at the end of it, because no one has to pick up the threads and carry on the story. I know X-Men fans had a lot of concerns about Morrison's New X-Men run but one of the problems was, he left things in such a state that some kind of reboot is necessary.

    "Suicide Squad is yet another example of the fact that continuity can be an absolute boon to storytelling."

    I'm a big believer that continuity can work well, when it lets the reader know that this is all part of a big fictional universe, without making the reader feel left out because they didn't read Underware Monster #56. Now that is a tricky balancing act but done right it can give the reader the feeling that they are getting a snapshot into the character's life, which has been eventful up to this point and will continue on after the story ends.

    "Perhaps there’s a book for someone in writing an alternative history of the sub-genre, dealing with the comics which are or should be the real spine of the tradition of the superhero book"

    Perhaps they could start out writing it as a series of articles in their blog and then look into expanding it into a book later. Perhaps the potential writer of such pieces is sitting not too many inches from the chair you are currently occupying...

    Oh and I looked it up, but still don't get the "bootblacking" reference. Anyone care to explain?

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  17. Hello Emperor:- I very much DO recommend the book for the reasons given above. The two real stand-out books from the post-Crisis re-boot were JLI and SuSq; they both played across the DCU without getting bogged down in unnecessary continuity. Together they hinted at a new kind of superhero book, bright, clever, involving, as much about a world as costumes punching each other. Four years later and the bloom was very much was off the rose. A great shame.

    The lack of SuSq Showcase is a shame. Hopefully Mr O and Mr O will get more substantial royalties from the colour volumes. The From The Ashes tale wasn't as successful as the first series; it seemed far less rich a tale, far less involved with the wider reality and far more upon the central plot; yet it was the fusion of the two aspects which made the series so splendid. Perhaps I missed the original so much that I missed the virtues of the later series. I'll double-back and see.

    That darned Underware Monster # 56. It ruins everything!

    I've come a long way since my original fundamentalist stance on change in the superhero universes. But I still believe in the pleasures and oppurtunities of continuity as used in SuSq and JLI, and I do think that one of the central responsibilities of editors is to make sure that GM doesn't paint everyone else into a corner. But now we apparently have a situation where a new number 1 brings a new continuity. It's daft. There's a world of difference between continuity analism and tapping into all the richness of comics history.

    Or; don't kill off Johnny Alpha for a daft reason!

    On your penultimate point; I've been thinking about this whole blogging biz, I've been doing it for longer than I ever intended. Yet in the pst few weeks, I feel as if I've learned more about the business of story and character than in any comparable period. I have no doubt that that's a function of my own stupidity, but I must admit, I feel I'll just have to keep going a touch longer because I've obviously been missing all the stuff that everyone else always got. By which I mean, an alternative history of the sort discussed is kind of unavoidable. Not in any fit-for-anyone-else sense, but just because I can't help but still be curious :) An idiot's alt his. It's not anything, but it's my own, bless its pointy head!

    As for bootblacking, try looking it up on Amazon.Com. No, serously. That's a polite starting point :)

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  18. I came to Suicide Squad backwards through The Spectre. I liked that series so much I had to see what else that Ostrander guy had been up to. To the back issue bins I went! Hawkwprld was well-done, and remains my favorite version of the Hawks. Firestorm I didn't like as much and only bought a handful of issues.

    Suicide Squad, though, was the best. The character interactions and plots were on another level. Who knew Captain Boomerang was a good character? Or Bronze Tiger, Enchantress, Count Vertigo, et al? DC's non-Batman villains are usually lame. Ostrander and Yale managed to make me care what happened to these nowhere characters using the shocking method of good writing. Hear that, Big 2? GOOD! WRITING!

    Waller remains one of the most three-dimensional characters from any super-hero comic, and I haven't seen her written nearly as carefully in her occasional DCU appearances since. The best she's had was on Justice League Unlimited, specifically the episode in which she has a long talk with the future Batman.

    McDonnell's art was initially a turn-off. The only comics I'd seen with his art were a couple issues of What If...? That series has never been known for it's art, but McDonnell's sketchy, dark line was not to my liking. On Suicide Squad, however, it worked; Enchantress, in particular, looked menacing despite her ridiculous costume.

    Not to be too pedantic, but it's Janus Directive. Judas gets blamed for a lot, but he had nothing to do with that crossover. I suspect he was behind Bloodlines, though. Genesis, too.

    I have to disagree that GMozz left the X-Men in a state that another writer couldn't use. He brought the comic out of its doldrums, created a whole mutant subculture, made Cyclops interesting, made the school an actual school, expanded the entire mutant line... Marvel chickened out and the X-books haven't recovered yet. If the editors and writers hadn't rejected the new vision of what the series could be, we could have had better X-comics for the last 7 years. Hopefully, Mr. Gillen and co. will be the ones to right the ship.

    - Mike Loughlin

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  19. Hello Mike:- We’ve chatted about the Morrison X-Men before and the degree to which we can agree that his changes were productive or not. And reading your words in the above did give me a penny-dropping moment, so I’m really grateful to you. Because in a sense I think I can run with Morrison’s changes AS LONG AS MORRISON IS AROUND TO MANAGE THEM! What we really needed was an Earth-Morrison, or at least that’s my take. Now, that’s not to say that another writer couldn’t run with the Morrison take IF they were given the freedom he’d been given and IF they had his talent. But given that the X-Men is a huge franchise, there’s just not the many Morrisons around to deliver a coherent version of his take. But I stand by the idea that editors have to control the degree of change which any one creator is allowed to make so that at the very least a path backwards can be believably preserved. I know anything can be done in the DCU or MU, but a re-set button that doesn’t rankle is a tough beast to deliver.

    And yet … I have come a long way from my old fundamentalist views about keeping comics scenarios stable … OK. I suspect I need to find the time to go back and re-read those Morrison tales again. Perhaps all this time I’ve been thinking about what I didn’t like about the changes rather than the possibilities in them.

    “I came to Suicide Squad backwards through The Spectre. I liked that series so much I had to see what else that Ostrander guy had been up to. To the back issue bins I went! Hawkwprld was well-done, and remains my favorite version of the Hawks. Firestorm I didn't like as much and only bought a handful of issues.”

    Hawkworld was a great prestige series and the Ostrander mini was fine too. There was even a lovely little all-ages story of Hawkworld in the DC kid’s magazine of the time. What a stupid shame that the powers that be just wouldn’t let Hawkworld be the prequel for the Post-Crisis Hawkman. Has there ever been a character treated worse than Hawkman? But I’m with you; THAT’S my Hawkman and Hawkwoman. Savage Hawkman? Oh pl-lease….

    ”Ostrander and Yale managed to make me care what happened to these nowhere characters using the shocking method of good writing. Hear that, Big 2? GOOD! WRITING!”

    It scares me that this whole obvious business of GOOD WRITING is getting lost. Three cheers for the reboot, I hope …

    ”Waller remains one of the most three-dimensional characters from any super-hero comic, and I haven't seen her written nearly as carefully in her occasional DCU appearances since. “

    Well, she’s such a complex character, and she doesn’t fit into the usual character good/character bad continuum. Nor does she want to be a ‘good’ character. She’s just not a nice person. She likes messing with people and upsetting them, she’s a bully and she’s cruel. Which makes her fascinating. But if she’s not played right, then all we get is a-slightly-bad-woman-who-will-become-nice-day.

    ”Not to be too pedantic, but it's Janus Directive. Judas gets blamed for a lot, but he had nothing to do with that crossover. I suspect he was behind Bloodlines, though. Genesis, too.”

    It is Janus, isn’t it? Hurrah for you!

    ”Hopefully, Mr. Gillen and co. will be the ones to right the ship.”

    I have enjoyed the Breakworld story, although there’s a few editorial problems which needed sorting out. But then, I don’t even understand how editorial operates in comics anymore. That’s all speculation on my part. What counts is that what we’ve seen has both promise AND value-in-itself. Huzzah!

    It’s a bleak, dark rainy English afternoon as I type this, with 30 degree heat coming tomorrow. I hope your day is saner in its weather at least :)

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  20. Here in *New* England (Marvel's 2003 attempt to sell a new series about their old England characters; it died after 12 issues) it's cool and gray, and tomorrow will be sunny and hot. Roy Thomas or Geoff Johns will someday write a story linking the similar weather patterns of the 2 Englands.

    Morrison's X-Men has lost some of its luster over the years. I maintain that the level of ambition was high but there were some failures in terms of craft. Basic storytelling got lost at times, and some stories fizzled out. The artistic inconsistency was a big problem. For my money, though, it was still a worthwhile set of comics. If only Mr. Quitely had done more issues! If only Mr. Morrison had done more with some of the characters! If only...

    But, no, it's still good stuff. Not as great as I thought it was at the time but miles above most other X-Comics. Maye it couldn't have lasted on a planet other than Earth-Morrison, but Milligan, Hine, & a few others worked within the world established in New X-Men.

    Speaking of Earth-Morrison, I have found that most of my favorite Big 2 comic book writers are world builders. Gerber had a network of weirdos, often with tangential connections to each other. Man-Thing introduced Howard the Duck, who could team up with the Defenders, who could cross over with the Guardians of the Galaxy. Ostrander used Father Kramer in more than one series. Peter David worked Rick Jones & Marlo into Captain Marvel. Morrison splintered and expanded the limits of the Marvel & DC Universes. It's fairly amazing that he has been given so many high-profile DC gigs considering how much he warped the 3rd-stringers (and Batman!) in his early works.

    I think the editors' jobs, unfortunately, have become more traffic management and making sure writers toe company lines. We won't have another Gerber or Morrison or Moore or Miller until we have editors and publishers ready to say, "You know what? Do what you think will work for this series. I'll be checking the logic, flow, and effectiveness of your story. We'll do story conferences. I won't nix your stories unless they don't work." If there is another writer with the right stuff working at the Big 2, it will be hard to spot them in between crossovers and gratuitous deaths.

    Then again, maybe I'm wronger than wrong. That would be nice!

    - Mike Loughlin

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  21. Hello Mike:- I like the idea of comic book continuity being used to explain our distant and yet similar weather. "A Damp Non-Crisis On Two Similar-Sounding Countries"

    I found my enjoyment of the Morrison stories, I realise after reading your words, was largely determined by the craft of the artists he was working with. His work with FQ, for example, tends to always read well, which makes me wonder whether Mr Quietly isn't such a good storyteller that he adds some of the connective tissue which GM somethings leaves out of his modern-era stories.

    You ARE right that there were splendid writers on hand for the mutants during the GM years. Not enough to man the bafflements for the entire line. That's a big family of comics to keep afloat, isn't it? It must be fantastically difficult job to do, and for that I've moaned once or twice, and for whatever little it's worth I've never under-estimated how difficult that stewardship must be.

    It's funny, but I was just discussing this very business of succesful writers being world-builders with Michael over on the comments for the Champions piece. And so, I most certainly agree with you. Morrison has certainly done that with the international Batmens and so on. It's a matter which might repay some playful thinking about. When is the world building a good idea and when is just a matter of collecting a few dodgy supporting players and missing the point. (Was the Fourth World of Kirby's the best example of this policy, involving as it did Superman, Jimmy Olsen and a range of other DC characters?)

    I fear that your suspicions about a modern editors responsibilities up to but not inluding the DanDD level sounds compellingly convincing. I'm going to fascinated to see how the reboot plays out in terms of the freedom that writers are given to create unique and individual experiences. If some editors do seem to have a great number of achievments or duffers, we'll know something of who's got an clear idea of how to do their jobs in a let-the-talent-loose fashion.

    It would be nice to be wrong about our suspicions, wouldn't it?

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  22. Excellent work as always.

    I adore the SUICIDE SQUAD, of course. It comes from that amazing moment when the creators of my beloved 'third way' comics appeared to be taking over the DC Universe. Ostrander came from GRIM JACK to FIRESTORM, SUICIDE SQUAD and MANHUNTER. Mike Baron re-invented THE FLASH after his legendary work on NEXUS and BADGER. Chuck Dixon moved from AIRBOY to BATMAN. Tim Truman managed to make Hawkman engaging.

    Of those series, SUICIDE SQUAD was the most original. Any characters seemed like they could die at any time and yet the series had an odd bounce to it that was born of its pitch black sense of humor. I found myself truly loving that cast in exactly the same way I had loved the X-Men a half decade earlier. It always shocked me a bit that SUICIDE SQUAD didn't break out in the same way.

    My feeling at the time was that the art held the title back a bit. Luke McDonnell was a strong story-teller, but his style was out synch with the times. His departure left a void that was never properly filled.

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  23. It's no secret I'm a huge fan of Ostrander's Suicide Squad and you make excellent points as to why. It feels completely modern (by which I mean contemporary) despite its age. In other words, despite the political changes that have since occured, it remains relevant and ageless.

    One question you bring up is that of continuity, which is something I've had occasion to think about often, especially with DC's claims of "continuity as burden".

    I think the difference between continuity then and continuity now, between Ostrander's adroit juggling of it and DC's inability to face up to it now, is that editing is no longer a prized skill (and this is true of Marvel's head office too). You make the point without trying to. Greenberger was tying various books together, often subtly (I never even knew of the GL connection) and it's something he's known for in the Trek universe as well.

    Today's continuity isn't any more confusing than it ever was, or perhaps it is, but that's not inherent to the concept of continuity. Rather, we've seen the rise of an "author is king" mentality with editors managing talent, but never correcting talent. If continuity is problematic, it's because of the many discrepencies that have sprung up due to lazy editing (Anima has been killed like 3 times in the last 10 years, to name a minor example). DC and Marvel really don't need to reboot anything because their authors (I use this word because the most damaging "writers" are often actually "artists" who've been given writerly duties) enact their own reboots, slight or large, all the time. And without proper editorial oversight, they make so-called continuity incoherent. The partial reboot of Flushpoint (everything changes except GL, Batman, etc.) will lead to at least as much incoherence as the Crisis did (where again, Batman, Titans, etc. didn't reboot), but I believe it will build up much more quickly because star authors will have the run of the show without getting the chance to place the show in the same context as other authors.

    Editorial today has more to do with becoming an author, either using editing as a springboard for writing assignments or imposing "events" on their authors, interference that is almost always denigrated by the knowing reader. Their agenda is that of a non-editor, and so it's no surprise when actual editing skills are poorly developed. DC's entire event output of the last few years is a ghastly mess that could only result from editorial laziness (the multiple deaths of the New Gods in the same few months, for example, or the way things were built up in Brightest Day just to be abandonned in September). What emerges is a lack of an overall vision of how the shared universe is supposed to fit together.

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  24. Hello Dean:- Yes, I can't imagine that you WOULDN'T enjoy the Suicide Squad. On reflection, I'd find a Dean who didn't admire the heck out of the book to be a most apparently un-Dean-like, er, Dean.

    You shall always be a friend'o'this'blog, should such a title be of even an atom of interest to you, for throwing in the "third way" label and then cheering me up with memories of those great titles. And DC really did welcome the Third Wayers for a while, didn't it, and far more than Marvel appeared to. Two of the three best post-Crisis titles were SiSq and The Flash, which for a brief half-year was a really invigorated monthly book. My hats of to you for reminding me of Chuck Dixon's indy origins, and if I haven't said it enough, "Hawkworld" remains one of my most treasured books. Political, smart, exciting; who on Earth would want or prefer a 'savage' Hawkman?

    That's an interesting and informing link you make between the SuSq and the X-Men of the titles best years. Both carved out areas of superhero universes and created new ways of seeing familiar characters, stories and so on. Both were peopled by vulnerable characters, both existed in worlds which were threatening ... I think it's a really interesting of drawing connections between two books which wouldn't normally be spoken of in the same breath. You've given me much to ponder there. Thank you.,

    And a fine point about Mr McDonnell. I own up to feeling that he was too pedestrian, but as you say, when he went, no-one could match his achievements. Which speaks, as you say, for the ultimate quality of his work.

    What I wouldn't give for ONE book of the SuSq's quality in the grand re-boot. Fingers crossed, hold nose, jump!

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  25. Hello Siskoid: - “It feels completely modern (by which I mean contemporary) despite its age. In other words, despite the political changes that have since occurred, it remains relevant and ageless.”

    Oh, yes, it does, and I suspect that’s because human nature doesn’t change. I can just imagine Waller and Steel and all the rest of Ostrander’s super-politicos up to their snouts in Iraq and Afghanistan, I really can. And I grateful to you for making that point, because it re-intensifies my understanding of how SuSq is a far more special book than I realised until recently.

    ”One question you bring up is that of continuity, which is something I've had occasion to think about often, especially with DC's claims of "continuity as burden".I think the difference between continuity then and continuity now, between Ostrander's adroit juggling of it and DC's inability to face up to it now, is that editing is no longer a prized skill (and this is true of Marvel's head office too). You make the point without trying to. Greenberger was tying various books together, often subtly (I never even knew of the GL connection) and it's something he's known for in the Trek universe as well.”

    I didn’t know of Mr Greenberger’s involvement in the Star Trek books. I’m tempted to go check his work out there simply because of all I’ve recently read about his involvement at DC in that period. It does seem obvious that he really got involved in that – as you say – largely long-lost art of being an editor. Because I don’t know what the editors at the Big Houses do anymore, I’m hesitant to say anything beyond the fact that clearly a number of them either can’t do their jobs OR they’re not allowed to do them OR both. I find it impossible to credence the big screw-ups which we come across – such as those you mention – and the little ones too. How is it possible that folks can be told they’ve got a gig with the new DC which they haven’t? Whoever would be brusque in removing GS from Birds of Prey? How did George Perez’s tribute cover get pulled without anyone thinking to tell him? Marvel at least seems far better at the basic everyday courtesies, though, yes, I agree with you that continuity simply isn’t being dealt with in a sensible way. Re-reading SuSq just made me realise – perhaps for the first time to this degree – how brilliant a truly well-integrated universe can be. Not so that fanboys can find out exactly what happened, as Paul Levitz once said, between Adventure 250 and 251, but for the reasons I was discussing above.

    Today's continuity isn't any more confusing than it ever was, or perhaps it is, but that's not inherent to the concept of continuity… And without proper editorial oversight, they make so-called continuity incoherent. The partial reboot of Flushpoint (everything changes except GL, Batman, etc.) will lead to at least as much incoherence as the Crisis did (where again, Batman, Titans, etc. didn't reboot),…”

    There’s no doubt that continuity-obsessives did a great deal of harm to the industry in the 80s and 90s in particular. But to decide that a shared coherent universe can’t work because of the fan-priestly-excesses of a few obsessives-turned-pros is to mistake what the problem was in the first place. Yes, you’re quite right. And certainly if a company is making great play about rebooting – or whatever word – a universe, then NOT doing so is surely a disaster in the making. To reboot the less successful titles but not the most – especially since the GL titles are impenetrable to outsiders anyway – is unlikely to go well.

    cont;

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  26. cont;

    “Editorial today has more to do with becoming an author, either using editing as a springboard for writing assignments or imposing "events" on their authors, interference that is almost always denigrated by the knowing reader. Their agenda is that of a non-editor, and so it's no surprise when actual editing skills are poorly developed. DC's entire event output of the last few years is a ghastly mess that could only result from editorial laziness (the multiple deaths of the New Gods in the same few months, for example, or the way things were built up in Brightest Day just to be abandoned in September). What emerges is a lack of an overall vision of how the shared universe is supposed to fit together.”

    I so wish that I knew what being an editor actually involved these days, I really do. There are clearly different breeds of the job, and the power of those higher up the corporate ladder clearly extends to creative decisions far more than traffic copness. I suspect that each company actually has quite different models working within it at the same time, just as I suspect that each company is quite different one to the other. At the moment, either Marvel have got the world’s best confidentiality clause in their contracts or things are working on a far more civil and sane basis there. All I can say is that I agree entirely with your bemoaning the decline in the standards of editorship, although I must say I worry how far back we’d have to go back to find more than a few brilliant editors working at the same time. The horror stories seem to abound for each era. In many ways, I worry that it’s at the editor level that the greatest damage is being done.

    Ah, well, as time passes, we’ll discover more. Let’s hope a new golden age will dawn once the DC retooling is in place and all these golden longterm plans pay off. Because surely no-one would enter such a major redevelopment on a wing and a prayer?

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  27. That last question seems destined to break hearts.

    To be clear, I don't profess to know exactly what editors are doing now (or then), but am speaking to an IMPRESSION of what they seem to be doing. I base my conclusions on measurable success stories such as Mr. Greenberger and Vertigo's Karen Berger, and on measurable failures of people I won't (or can't! it's like they don't exist anymore!) name. If a line of books (i.e. under the same editor) missteps across the board, then I think there's cause to say editorial isn't doing its work and may actually be harming those books.

    The overall direction of course comes from editors-in-chief and both DiDio and Quesada have made major P.R. blunders. The flip side is that they've been honest about their opinions and why they've spun certain books into certain directions. If we disagree with those decisions, then we disagree with the man who made them and again, we may find evidence of editorial working or not. Quesada's insensitive comments and tonal blindness when it comes to women's issues, for example, was reflected in the way women were portrayed or employed at Marvel. We can blame individual writers, but the fact remains, Editorial has shown a sexist bent and if it doesn't encourage those things, it certainly lets them through. It would probably take than one full article to really analyze the various editing styles (in chief and not) and how they are translated through any given company's authors, of course.

    Another example that comes to mind, from a production point of view, is the extreme lateness books have suffered in the past decade (again, this is the decade of the two names eds-in-chief). Why are books later now than they ever were in the 70s and 80s? The main culprits seem to be superstar authors. Big name writers who have tons of other projects, comics being the lowest on their list, letting their deadlines pass. And "hot" artists who's work takes a long time to create (and then color, compare to Jim Shooter's editorship at Marvel that advocated single color washes on background or foreground figures to save time and never ship late). The priority for editorial then seems to be catering to "stars" (which fits with my theory of them letting authors run away with properties and continuity/idea quality be damned), not shipping on time. As I've been saying for a long time, why are the big two still pushing monthlies when the industry would be better off (on both the selling and buying ends of the equation) going to graphic novel/trade only? But I fear that's another conversation altogether.

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  28. Hello Siskoid:- "To be clear, I don't profess to know exactly what editors are doing now (or then), but am speaking to an IMPRESSION of what they seem to be doing.”

    Yes, and I don’t think it’s unfair to want editors to attend to matters such as you discuss, whether they . Late books, manifestly poor craftsmanship, a lack of concern for communication. No, I think that even if these things are no longer specifically an editor’s job, then they should be.

    “We can blame individual writers, but the fact remains, Editorial has shown a sexist bent and if it doesn't encourage those things, it certainly lets them through.”

    Absolutely, sir. The buck most certainly stops there. In fact, where else can it stop. I admire a great deal that JQ did, particularly in the first five or so years after taking on the Marvel, but if he could take a lead – and a quite understandable one in light of his private life – in banning smoking from his books, then he could also have taken a more pro-active stance where issues to do with social justice were concerned. Same with DC. We hear a great deal that WB want diversity pushed in the new DC, and I’ll interested to see how that plays out, but whyever did it have to be delayed until now? It’s the 21st century, not the late 1960s. A poor show, I fear, where both companies as a whole are concerned, for all the excellence of certain creators and editors.

    ”Another example that comes to mind, from a production point of view, is the extreme lateness books have suffered in the past decade (again, this is the decade of the two names eds-in-chief). Why are books later now than they ever were in the 70s and 80s?”

    I don’t think it’s possible that they could be later than in the MID-70s, Mr S :) But at least they did have fill-in inventories during that period, meaning that Bill Mantlo could be found writing EVERYTHING in a particular month. No, there’s no excuse for lateness, there’s only contempt for the audience; or rather, there are excuses of course for lateness when illness and family tragedy, for example, occurs. Yet lateness which is endemic is contemptuous of the audience, and at the heart of it, that’s what has most hurt the industry.

    “The priority for editorial then seems to be catering to "stars" (which fits with my theory of them letting authors run away with properties and continuity/idea quality be damned), not shipping on time.”

    Well, stars do sell, that is true. But there’s surely ways of dealing with the problem. I suspect a lack of will.

    “As I've been saying for a long time, why are the big two still pushing monthlies when the industry would be better off (on both the selling and buying ends of the equation) going to graphic novel/trade only? But I fear that's another conversation altogether.”

    And our point of difference, I fear. Well, ‘fear’ is entirely the wrong word, of course. I look forward to the possibility of my learning further from your opinion on the matter when next it swings round this way :)

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  29. I made my points about adopting a European model (à la Tintin, Asterix, et al.) over on my blog and shan't repeat it here, but I do believe what's broken in American comics today is the format. But back on point...

    About stars. Of course they sell, but do they have a right to? If you're a star and you produce good comics on time, you deserve all the money and adulation we through at you. If not, well...

    Comics companies are actually doing a disservice to themselves and those stars by green lighting monthly projects written or drawn by such stars. The star is not cast in the best light, frequently attracting ire from the readership, while at the same time reducing the amount of good will or interest in the company's offerings. When a popular story arc, like Donner's stint on Superman has to end (and here it's Kubert Jr.'s fault, not Donner) in an annual months later than it should, intervening issues spoiling the resolution of the story, you can't tell me DC didn't lose momentum on its Superbooks. Even now, people are raising eyebrows that Kubert is on Flashpoint, and we had to be reassured that he already had X number of issues finished. Looks like he's hurting his reputation with fans and publishers. At least the aforementioned project was finished, unlike some Kevin Smith books I won't name.

    On stars culled from other media and who repeatedly prove that being good in one medium does not make you good at comics (Meltzer, Picoult, JMS), companies invariably try to sell their work in bookstores to people who don't really read comics, but might have liked the writer's other work. And since these are often bad comics, there's really little chance that you're going to hook a "mundane" on Justice League, Wonder Woman or Spider-Man with their stuff.

    And then there's the star writer who DOES manage deadlines and who can write multiple books. That's fine if assigned one or two, but companies always seem to spread their talent thin. Johns and Bendis are perhaps the best examples. Both have done good, even great, work. Both have done horrible work. Who can blame them for becoming repetitive or even phoning one in sometimes? They've got so much to do. An overused star will tend to burn out, that's for sure. And it looks like you can't write a hit anymore without them throwing money at you to write at least two more. But do you have those two IN you?

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  30. Well I know what trade's going on MY pull list right now...


    - Charles RB

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  31. Hello Siskoid: “I made my points about adopting a European model (à la Tintin, Asterix, et al.) over on my blog and shan't repeat it here, but I do believe what's broken in American comics today is the format. But back on point...”

    No, there are no relevant points here. You’re very welcome to go where the thoughts take you. I’ll go over to your blog later today and check out your arguments in detail.

    ”About stars. Of course they sell, but do they have a right to? If you're a star and you produce good comics on time, you deserve all the money and adulation we through at you. If not, well...”

    I do agree with you. And yet markets have their own logics, and much of the current one has decided that it’s happy with the situation as stands. Of course, I suspect that a great many folks have opted out, but they’re not around to influence the decisions with their wallets anymore. Mind you, DC has announced that everything will be out on time for the relaunch. I retain a degree of skepticism, but it’d be great if that was so ..

    ”Comics companies are actually doing a disservice to themselves and those stars by green lighting monthly projects written or drawn by such stars …”

    The examples you give are compelling. Nobody wins from that situation, although artists will always get work if they’re competent, and there are folks like Giffen and Perez who went through difficult stages and came out the other end as model professionals. But what would happen if publishers started saying ‘no, you must be on time’. The other company would simply rack up the alienated talent …

    ”On stars culled from other media and who repeatedly prove that being good in one medium does not make you good at comics (Meltzer, Picoult, JMS), companies invariably try to sell their work in bookstores to people who don't really read comics, but might have liked the writer's other work. And since these are often bad comics, there's really little chance that you're going to hook a "mundane" on Justice League, Wonder Woman or Spider-Man with their stuff.”

    And yet these books sell. JMS can sell rubbish like Earth One in tens of thousands of hardback copies. Again, if a company can shift such creators off into occasional projects then perhaps it’s a win-win situation.

    ”And then there's the star writer who DOES manage deadlines and who can write multiple books. That's fine if assigned one or two, but companies always seem to spread their talent thin. Johns and Bendis are perhaps the best examples … An overused star will tend to burn out, that's for sure. And it looks like you can't write a hit anymore without them throwing money at you to write at least two more. But do you have those two IN you?”

    It’s true. Both BMB and GJ desperately need editing for a good deal of the time, and they’re not getting it. But then, once again, they’re selling. It doesn’t matter what they do, the essential quality of their work that appeals to their fans compensates for all the disadvantages. And we can say they should be prompt and be edited and perhaps asked to concentrate on less books, but companies would cut their own throat if they did so.

    I say this not to justify anything. It’s just that the folks with power are the folks who are the star writers and artists. It’s a circle that can’t ever be squared unless some other body with power enters the equation. And the only group at the moment who could do that would be the corporations, who’ve never proved the wisest of overlords.

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  32. Hello Charles:- actually, from what I know about your taste from our correspondance, this REALLY be right down your alley. Factor in the fact that it IS still a mainstream '80s title, meaning that it does read a little broader than today's comics, and I hope and expect you'd enjoy the show :)

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  33. Because the arguments were made weeks ago, I'm giving you the link. The post is called Flushpoint: Not Far Enough.

    And I can't argue with your point that the companies AND the audience are enabling big sellers to produce forgettable, subpar, craftless or late comics. But I feel it's a closed system that is letting fewer and fewer people in, even as the publishes tout policies apparently meant to widen the audience. In my ideal world, everybody reads comics just like everybody watches movies and listens to music. Current policies are not taking the medium out of its small niche, sadly.

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  34. Hello Siskoid:- Can I just say that I agree with every one of your points in the above. Yes, everyone should read comics, just as most folks watch TV and read and listen to music. And yes, the industry hasn't made a serious effort to make that happen. Nor would I disagree with much of your arguments in FLUSHPOINT about a more European approach. But I do believe that AND a monthly market governed by more enthusiasm and craft could flourish hand in hand, and that's my only point of contention. Not one or the other, therefore, but both :)

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  35. Hello Colin,

    When I started reading comics again as an adult, John Ostrander's run on Hawkworld was one of the first things I came across. It was like encountering someone with DID.

    On one hand, you had the Good Ostrander, who wrote fantastically involving stuff. You could see why Katar and Shayera needed to be together, but they were far apart. You could see where they needed to come out politically, but they hadn't gotten there. The tension built almost unbearably, and then the Bad Ostrander came out, and made the climax into the story of How the Hawks Got Their New Costumes. You had the sense of a good, committed writer who just remembered he was supposed to be writing comics.

    Warren Ellis would take it a step further, and claim that Ostrander was just a good writer stuck writing comics who would have been better off if he could have gotten established elsewhere. Possibly, though I wonder if Ostrander himself would see it that way. In any case, I'm grateful for what he's written. That moment in Hawkworld when Katar discovers the phrase "inalienable rights" was pure wonder for me as well as for Katar. I'd been exposed to the phrase all my life, and I was vaguely aware of how it fit into eighteenth century political philosophy, but this was the first time I actually heard it. And wow, what an idea.

    In a similar way, at one point in my life I listened to Bach's Chaconne over and over again, in many versions, feeling there was something there but not connecting to it. Julian Bream's version made me decide to learn classical guitar.

    One day I and the woman I was living with had my current guitar teacher over for dinner. He brought his guitar, and sat there playing this and that, at random. Then he suddenly began the Chaconne, which he was playing in concert at the time. It was the first time I'd ever heard it without that museum framing, that is, without knowing I was about to hear it.

    And without the usual distance, it was a scary piece of music. It made me feel the way you would if you walked into an alley and realized too late you'd made a mistake, and that it would have been so easy not to have done that. That feeling of consequence and choices made and doors closing. I realized the Chaconne was about living in the face of the certainty that you're going to die one day, and about the attitudes you can try to take towards it. Whatever attitudes you did take, the piece ends with your coffin shutting anyway, just as it began with the coffin being built.

    Most comics are meant to insulate you from seeing anything afresh, and to wrap you in their closed little world. How good to have someone like John Ostrander who will try to wake you up.

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  36. Hello Brian:- I too loved Hawkworld, and I too lost my love for the series as it developed. I wonder the degree to which JO was writing what he'd have wanted to and that to which he was following editorial 'advice'. Regardless, the book did start off far better than it ended.

    "That moment in Hawkworld when Katar discovers the phrase "inalienable rights" was pure wonder for me as well as for Katar. I'd been exposed to the phrase all my life, and I was vaguely aware of how it fit into eighteenth century political philosophy, but this was the first time I actually heard it. And wow, what an idea."

    Oh, yes. There's no other sequence of stories in the sub-genre which make the basic political principles underlying the American state so emotionally attractive. No mean feat at all. In fact, an incredibly important business, given that we know that most folks make their political decisions unconsciously and that they're led by the emotional associations they have with political issues. (I do not disassociate myself with any sense of superiority from such problematical behaviour.)

    I found your discussion of the Bach piece quite fascinating. Thank you. I shall of course now head off and listen to it myself. But your point about context and of how art itself can't frame our response to it really does raise the question of what it is that most modern-era books are seeking to do? What is it that they're trying to provide a context for? Is it a political debate about the differences between authoritarian and democractic societies or is it Hulk-smash?

    Who is it that's trying to keep us awake these days, and who doesn't even realise that we're all often at least in part asleep?

    Thank you, Brian. Great stuff :)

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